Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're listening to the Lodestar, the supply.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: Chain and logistics industry's leading source of insight. This podcast was created and produced by MK and associates and your host, Mike King.
We're back, and today we're looking at a summer of union strife and the threat of more to come. We're also looking at unseasonal weirdness in air cargo markets even before the peak season. Why shippers think Port told the key to data transparency and untangling supply chain bottlenecks, and how four has become two in the battle for DB Schenker, I'm joined by Ikea Stefan Krasiger, handbeg Port Authority's Ingrid Bokeh, a surprise new entrant from the Lodestar's editorial team, and the retaining air cargo guru that is Zenita's Neil van de wow.
[00:00:48] Speaker C: There are many signals that we'll see a very busy Q four. You never know where they're freight, but if you look at the typical seasonality patterns in e commerce, it really grows a lot in Q four relative to Q three. And flights out of Asia Pacific, depending on where you look, could be already 85, 86, 88% full. So there is not a lot of capacity freely available, let alone if the surge comes on.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: Hello, everybody, I'm Mike King. Welcome to the Lodestar podcast.
We're back for the autumn season after our summer break, and we've got a heavyweight lineup today, housework first, if you don't know already, you can find all episodes of this podcast on the usual platforms and on theloadstar.com, where you can follow breaking supply chain stories from around the world. A bit later, as trailed, I'll be finding out why some leading shippers think ports are the perfect means by which they can solve their supply chain visibility and port congestion problems. I'll be joined by Ingrid Bokeh, global strategic Networks officer at Hamburg Port Authority, and Stefan Cratica, business development leader, global port for supply chain operations at Ikea. But first up we have Neil van de wow, chief air freight officer at Deneter. Welcome back, Neil.
[00:02:10] Speaker C: Thank you, Mike.
[00:02:11] Speaker B: You're very welcome. And I'm delighted, nay, honoured, no, overwhelmed, to be joined for the very first time by the lodestar's heaviest of heavy hitters, a man who I've seen in person slug a child's baseball a humongous six yards on just his 10th attempt, no less, after hitting out for the first nine. Who could this legend be? Well, the wait is over. It's the Lodestar's news editor making his virgin bow on this here podcast. Alex Whiteman, finally we have you.
[00:02:42] Speaker D: Hey, Mike.
[00:02:43] Speaker B: Oh, that was. That was a very low key. Hey, after I've just spent the previous few sentences winding up. Okay, well, we'll get on with it, Alex, starting with you. We've got a great breaking story from Alex Lennane. European logistics companies have been warned that, and I'll quote, unconventional incendiary devices are being sent by Russia using freight services. What's going on?
[00:03:07] Speaker D: Yeah, and that's one we've been sort of chasing up today. From our understanding. German authorities have written logistics and transport providers after a DHL package caught fire. And it's light sea cabbage in July. DHL isn't the only company that's been affected. German authorities said. This thing is spanning european companies with packages all over the place.
[00:03:31] Speaker B: This is the german constitution office, isn't it? What's Russia's motivation for this, Alex?
[00:03:35] Speaker D: Yeah, so they're obviously tying it into the invasion of Ukraine and they're suggesting that more parcels containing these sorts of devices are expected and that this is an attempt to, and I quote, deliberately damaged freight service companies and other logistics infrastructure in western countries.
[00:03:52] Speaker B: Ok. Plenty to watch there then. And all very worrying. Sticking with Germany, the big company news of 2024 is a story that just keeps rumbling on. We now have two rival and binding bids for DB Schenker. This is a long running saga. DSV and a consortium led by CVC Capital Partners are the last bidders standing after AP Molomersk and saudi carrier Bari dropped out. Where are we up to with this, Alex?
[00:04:21] Speaker D: So in the final week of August, both DSV and CBC submitted bids of around the 14 billion euro mark. We also know that CBC tabled a separate bid that was for 16 billion, but would see the german government reinvest to take a 25% stake in Dubi Schenken. As for when it moves forward, we don't have any firm details, but Bloomberg noted that a DB steering committee meeting was expected at some point in the second week of September. That could result in a recommendation to go ahead with one of the bids, and if so, a supervisory board meeting set for the 18 September could prove potentially decisive. But again, this is from sources cited by Bloomberg and we haven't received anything official on that.
[00:05:09] Speaker B: I know that the Lodestar is going to be chasing this. Okay. We've seen quite a lot of important intermodal disruptions this winter and with potentially more to come. Let's start on some strikes, shall we? In Canada, traffic is now resumed on the rails operated by Canadian national railway company and Canadian Pacific Kansas City after a worker lockout affected some 9000 railway workers over a dispute between the two companies and the Teamsters union in August. Now the federal Labour Board has ordered a resumption of operations, much to the dismay of Teamsters. Canadian Pacific Kansas City Railroad was quick to warn we should expect several weeks before the railway network recovers. As of the start of September, the Teamsters union is filing lawsuits challenging the orders that forced employees back to work and got trains moving again. How serious is this disruption, Alex? And I guess this all could flare up at some point again, couldn't it?
[00:06:03] Speaker D: Well, yeah, as you mentioned, the government stepped in. They stepped in within 24 hours of the strike starting and essentially forced both the unions and the rail operators into binding arbitration. From what we can tell, the impact of that has been minimal. Moving forward, those Teamsters have said they were consulting lawyers on whether the government order was binding. So I think it's probably the, maybe a case of watch this space, and CPKC itself is said to expect disruption.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: So watch that north american union space because there's a lot been going on there. I'll come to the threat of us dock worker strikes at the start of next month a bit later on in this podcast when we look at what's coming down that pipeline for shippers. But we also had some disruption elsewhere in August, there was a threat of a strike at India's government owned Portland, which blew over. But Germany is more of a live issue, isn't it?
[00:06:57] Speaker D: Yeah. Again, on the India front, we were told by sources from the outset that the chances of strikes actually occurring were minimal. And as you've said, they were averted in the end in Germany. We're now into the full thrand of negotiations for a collective agreement that will cover some 11,000 employees at the german North Sea ports. The proposals in this round of negotiations appear to have been rejected by the unions, though. So, I mean, this has dragged in the senses. We could see labour action if the offer is not in line with what workers are seeking.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: Neil, lots of disruptions out there, as you just heard, what's been happening with air freight rates. Are there any negatives in 2024? When you're looking at demand and supply, you call this remarkable? On a recent Zenita webinar, you're pushing the boat out there a bit, aren't you?
[00:07:47] Speaker C: Well, that's how you define negatives. Negative for shippers could be positive for the freight forwards in the airlines, but we have not seen it typically quiet summer rates even increased during part of the summer, which is unusual. And year over year demand growth has, even in August, has been double digit. So I would say remarkable. I don't think many people would have foreseen this a couple of quarters back.
[00:08:12] Speaker B: So remarkably good for anyone who's supplying a service, I guess, is the point. There is this all down to disruptions, not just the ones Alex has just run through, but also the big one, which is Suez Canal vessel diversions, which have been causing all sorts of shipment delays, as well as closing that price differential between shipping and air to. I think it's around about a multiple of four. From what, over ten pre sewers was it, Neil, as a rule of thumb, is that about right?
[00:08:37] Speaker C: That's correct. So they're the differential. The gap is closing. But if I could have my pick and pick something that's four times more expensive than the best alternative, I would still go for the cheaper one.
It's difficult to quantify, but I think consensus is there the overall growth in e commerce has even a bigger impact than the diversion from ocean to air caused by the Red Sea situation.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: How does this break down regionally, Neil?
[00:09:07] Speaker C: A lot a loss. You could see rates tripling, doubling tripling in the AB, Bangladesh, but you could also see rates being 20 30% less on other lanes compared to last year. So by no means, let's say this global average, a yardstick for the individual lanes, whether you're on the front hall backhaul. But typically we see that out of Asia, that's where we see the biggest increase.
[00:09:35] Speaker B: Is this creating imbalances then, Neil? If we see x Asia routes performing really well and that's where most of this growth is. What are the backhauls like?
[00:09:44] Speaker C: Yeah, the lack of a better term, I would say nearly a bloodbath.
[00:09:47] Speaker B: Can you put any numbers on that?
[00:09:49] Speaker C: Well, load factors of in the mid 30% could be, yeah, because what we've seen there was already a trade imbalance out of Asia and into Asia. But what has made it worse is that a large part of the growth is because of e commerce. Typically lower value goods. Typically the raw materials are available already in the manufacturing areas, so there's no air freight parts being flown in that are then assembled, which helps a little bit. Let's say. If you're doing laptops or iPhones, bits and pieces are flown from the whole world into these consolidation centers where they then finish the final product. That's not the case with e commerce. So the imbalance that was there is only getting worse and what we see now is that it's not only affecting the markets into China, but the broader greater Pacific or greater China area, because people are finding ways to use the empty capacity out of North America and Europe into China, maybe to get stuff into Korea or Japan for that matter. So it's spreading.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: How is this coming across in terms of carrying numbers or financials, Neil? Are they making their money back on that outbound leg enough to the extent that offsets the bloodbath you just described on the return?
[00:11:09] Speaker C: Well, it depends if you're flying passenger planes or freighters, but I think with freighters it can be very difficult.
I heard that's from a, thats a financial perspective. Theres also the strategic consideration. How many eggs do you want to put in the same basket when it comes to serving these e commerce behemoths?
[00:11:29] Speaker B: Okay, very interesting. This is the slack season. It seems a relatively buoyant market, certainly if youre selling, if I can characterize it like that. Just looking forward to the peak season, theres a few signals out there. FedEx and UPs peak season surcharges are up, indicating that theyre expecting strong international and us domestic demand. One forwarder reported a shortage of wide body phrases during the summer, with many fully booked through to the end of the year. So what's your take on this? You mentioned e commerce there. Are you seeing that Asia capacity tightening?
[00:12:01] Speaker C: Well, I don't think there's a case of hopium here. I think it's grounded in reality that there are many signals that we'll see a very busy Q four. You never know with air freight. But if you look at the typical seasonality patterns in e commerce, it really grows a lot in Q four relative to Q three. And flights out of Asia Pacific, depending on where you look, could be already 85, 86, 88% full. So there is not a lot of capacity freely available, let alone if the surge comes on. And just to put things a little bit into perspective, I read yesterday that the TMU app was downloaded 37 million times in July of this year. So 37 million consumers downloaded that app to potentially buy stuff on that platform.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: I think they've sent me 32 million marketing emails since about the start of June. So an awful lot of emails they're sending out. I mean, obviously this is transforming the market. Can you just give us the listeners some context for this? Where are we looking at now? And maybe into that Q four peak, where are we looking now versus a year ago in terms of how high things might go in comparison? I'm looking at Asia, Europe, Asia US as key markets, just as a guideline view.
[00:13:17] Speaker C: So we see load factors are up by single digit percentage points. But if you look on the global perspective, volumes are double digit. And if you look at the global rates we can see that rates are up by more than 20% compared to last year in August. Yes we had. So it's a bit of a low comparison because August July last year were not that strong. But we've seen eight months in a row double digit growth and August will also be double digit according to our numbers. So we're heading into Q four with a, much, for the lack of a better word, stronger air freight market than last year. And we all know what happened last year was havoc for many shippers to find capacity in Q four.
[00:14:06] Speaker D: Hey Neil. Yeah. This new security change to us customs on air freight came into effect on the 21 August. I covered it for the Lodestar and one source I spoke to described it to me as a shit show. But how serious do you view this and do you have any insight into why this emergency change was ordered?
[00:14:25] Speaker C: Thank you for that. So I had a few conversations on the topic.
I don't know what the origin of this might be. One could ask if there's a, you know, if it's just a coincidence that the US are implementing this rule. Well, nearly simultaneously the german authorities are warning logistical companies is it a coincidence or might that be related?
Secondly, the industry expert that I talked to said the issue here is that it's a bit unclear what is actually required. So many companies are reinventing, let's say the wheel in how to deal with this matter. So instead of having one standard, which is always good from a safety perspective, it seems that many companies are developing their own standard in trying to comply with this new regulation. And that will cause inefficiencies, potentially bottlenecks even higher rates if goods get stranded as part of this process. So it's very early days, it's a bit messy, I know, not enough to also qualify it as a shit show. But what I do hear is that many companies are trying to deal with this and there seems to be a lack of a standard which would definitely help all stakeholders in this matter.
[00:15:47] Speaker B: Neil, will this tighten air cargo market on certain lanes into the US during the peak season then presumably it could well be.
[00:15:56] Speaker C: It could create bottlenecks and shippers get nervous when bottlenecks are created or when lead times become uncertain. That typically has an upward pressure on rates.
[00:16:07] Speaker B: Alex? Ocean spot rate increases stalled in July and they still seem to come off quite severely, although the context here is that they're still up massively by 150% to 300% year on year on the major head haul trade. And I see more blank services on the trans Pacific where a lot of capacity was added earlier this year. So there are signs that carriers might struggle pushing through gris in the coming weeks and months. But as we'll hear later, there's some more disruptions coming, so don't be placing any bets on that just yet. But Alex, you've been covering Asia, Europe, rail freight rates, they've been gaining ground. What's driving this? Is this all Sue's canal disruption and people looking for cheaper options than air? Yeah.
[00:16:48] Speaker D: So as far as rates go without an index, we've essentially been getting the figures by collating quotes forwarders have been offering. In August we reported 10% bounce in spot rates with services on a per tu basis being quoted at between 10,000 and $12,000. Driver behind this is. Yeah, I think essentially Suez and sources have said that interest in China and Europe rail will diminish if that's resolved. But also maybe more interestingly, youve got the kazakh and chinese governments really pushing the trans caspian corridor. I guess whats interesting on this point is what happens to it. If or when Russias war on Ukraine ends, will more western shippers revert to using China Europe routing through Russia? From the Kazakhstan point of view, certainly they seem to think theyve got something, as they announce in the final week of August their intentions to order more than 500 new locomotives in the next five years. And some agreements they've been signing to China sort of suggests the Chinese see opportunities here.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: Okay, so a lot more capacity coming on that central corridor.
How are sanctions on Russia affecting that northern Asia Europe route?
[00:18:01] Speaker D: Well, you can still go through Russia, it's a bit convoluted, but from what I've been told by forwarders, as long as you're using non russian locomotives and the services aren't stopping in Russia, then it's fine to go through Russia and do have some operators offering those services. I think one of the main issues though is some insurance companies are refusing to offer insurance on those routes for perhaps obvious reasons.
[00:18:30] Speaker B: We'll try and shed a bit more light on this on future Lodestar podcasts. Ok, let's just pivot. The International Longshoremen's association president Harold Daggett is preparing his union to strike at us ports along the country's eastern Gulf coast beginning on the 1 October. If negotiations with the United States Maritime alliance, the USMX failed to produce a satisfactory agreement by the end of the month when the current deal ends. We've been covering this all year. It's one of the reasons why we saw a relatively early peak shipping season on the trans pack. There's also differentials between the US east coast shipping rates and US west coast. Again, we'll come back to that in the future. But at the moment, Alex, is there any signs of an agreement, or should shippers be preparing for the worst?
[00:19:15] Speaker D: No. In fact, as we're speaking, which is this week of September, the US Maritime alliance said it had been unable to secure a meeting with the ILA to resume its negotiations. And the ILA is set to meet to establish strike committees ready for its proposed 1 October walk out. So on that front, things don't look good. As to the winners and losers of this, it's probably pretty obvious, but sources are telling us while shippers will get hammered, carriers are likely beneficiaries as a consequence of the longer moves and higher rates in and out us east coast.
[00:19:47] Speaker B: Okay, thanks, Alex. Yeah, I mean, if the pandemic told us anything, it's that container shipping profits tend to soar when we have a major disruption such as this. I just want to give listeners a little bit of context on this background so they understand exactly how big this could be. If you look at the first five months of 2024, front haul ocean freight volumes were up 10.4% compared to the same period in 2023, while growth on backhaul trades increased by 4.4%, according to Zaneta. On the supply side, we had record vessel deliveries which increased global container shipping capacity by 11% year on year by midsummer. So what we essentially have is we have supply is outstripping demand. And the reason why rates have still gone up is because Red Sea diversions around the Cape of good hope are sucking out at least 8% of global shipping capacity and they're causing bottlenecks everywhere else. We've seen all this port congestion this year. So it's those divisions that are bridging that gap between supply and demand and meaning that ocean shipping networks are still stretched quite tight. So if this shock that we're talking about on the US east coast plays out, it will have global ramifications. Which leads me to you, Neil. How might this play out for air cargo market? Are people buying capacity now, just in case?
[00:21:08] Speaker C: I think it's a little bit early because air cargo is, by its nature, it needs to move because of an incident or it needs to be there fast. I think it's difficult to anticipate a couple of months out, but the moment it would hit and it would realize then you could see air freight rates go up very quickly because then people need to move stuff from ocean to air and I don't think they can bring air freight volumes forward. So, no, I do not think that that threat is currently people are anticipating that and buying up capacity for airfreight.
[00:21:42] Speaker B: I mean, we're only talking a matter of days away, really. Well, 20 odd plus days, but okay, well, there has been some capacity changes on that transpac. We've seen CMA CGM adding a new B 777 freighter services operated by Atlas Air, which started last month connecting Hong Kong to Chicago via Anchorage. What do you think of this strategy by CMA CGM, Neil? And is anyone else looking at the us economy and expecting demand to hold up despite these warnings we've had of a recession?
[00:22:13] Speaker C: Well, I think it's part of a broader strategy than just adding a freighter on that specific lane. But if we look at the load factors, they're very healthy from an airline perspective. So connecting Hong Kong to Chicago makes a lot of sense. Getting the plane from Chicago back to Hong Kong might be a different matter. So rotation wise could be a bit difficult. But that is one of the highest load factors that we see in the network. So building stability for its customers. I get that.
[00:22:45] Speaker B: Thank you, Neil. Okay, everybody, please stay with me because I'll be discussing why ports could be the key to addressing shipper issues with cargo tracking transparency in just a moment. But for now, Neil van de wow, chief air freight officer at Zenita, and Alex Whiteman, news editor at the Lodestar. Thanks for joining me today on the Lodestar podcast.
[00:23:05] Speaker D: Cheers, Mike.
[00:23:06] Speaker C: Thank you, Mike.
[00:23:10] Speaker B: Let's have a look at why shippers think ports can bring a little more clarity to their supply chains and a little less risk to their logistics operations. Today we've got two top class guests to guide us through what I think are some really interesting developments in this area. First up is the global strategic networks officer, Hamburg Port Authority, who has worked in the industry for over a decade. As we'll hear today, she's also an active member on various committees and projects at the International association of Ports and Harbors, the IAP.
Ingrid Bokeh, welcome to the Lodestar podcast.
[00:23:45] Speaker E: Hi Mike. Thank you for having me today here with you. It's an honour to be part of this podcast.
[00:23:50] Speaker B: You are very welcome. And joining Ingrid today is the business development leader for global port supply chain operations at Ikea Supply, the scandinavian furniture giant supply chain operations organization. He began his career 20 years ago in the freight forwarding industry, where his experiences have spanned the globe. He joined Ikea in 2022 and is currently tasked with working with port stakeholders to bring more transparency and efficiency to supply chains. Stefan Kratogue welcome to the Lord podcast.
[00:24:20] Speaker A: Thank you Mike for the intro and thanks for having me.
[00:24:23] Speaker B: Stefan, if I may start with you as a representative today of beneficial cargo owners on a general level, what would you say are their frustrations with global supply chain operations in terms of logistics, bottlenecks and black spots for cargo visibility?
[00:24:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I wouldn't say frustrations, rather challenges or many opportunities. So we have to be aware that ports are an integral part of our end to end supply chain. And with this said, we aim to build a long term partnership with our service providers as we do it in ocean and land. We have a network of around 220 ports in our supply chain, so we have defined focus points for our collaboration on operational efficiency, digitalization, cost and sustainability. But of course, in the past years, many other bcos, as we have faced bottleneck situations, whether it's congestion at the port, shortage of capacity, etcetera. But as we have defined the ports as an integral part of our supply chain, it allows us to address these focus points with the ports and find solutions together. We also have to internally better understand what happens with our containers at the ports and bring that information into our organization, but also address it to the port industry. This allows us together to develop solutions in the interest of us for the ports, but also the whole end to end supply chain.
[00:25:58] Speaker B: Thanks Stefan. Yeah, I'm sure, as any of our listeners would know, we've had a lot of port congestion in 2024. But a lot of these frustrations from shippers that have been on this podcast, they stem back to the COVID era, I'd say. In the US, we've seen new regulations from the Federal Maritime Commission on detention and Demoral age, and all of this aimed at trying to make that port interface a bit more efficient for shippers. Particularly Ikea and other shippers obviously have joined the IAP in part because you believe ports have the capacity to help manage data fairly or more fairly. And almost, it seems like, play the role of referee between cargo owners and operators to help improve predictability. What's the rationale behind all this? Or maybe I'll put it a different question. What makes you think port operators have the skillset and bandwidth to manage any of this?
[00:26:48] Speaker A: Well, the ports, terminals and port authorities, many stakeholders meet, and each stakeholders has another priority set of data. They deliver data to the port community. They consume data. So I think it's a big opportunity, if we play this right and provide the right data sets to the right stakeholder, that we can benefit from that to have more predictability, have the right data available for our planning, which will automatically lead to a higher efficiency and at the end, for our customers to improve the affordability, sustainability, and availability of our goods.
[00:27:31] Speaker B: So you think they can play this role because you can't get any of your third party suppliers, or this is what beneficial cargo owners are saying, they just can't get this information elsewhere?
[00:27:40] Speaker A: Well, we can get it, but it's very fractured. And depending which third party we are communicating to, whether it's customs, the ocean carrier, the land carrier, or the port terminal, we get a different data set, not aligned, and also maybe not in the same data language, which makes it quite complicated for companies like us who have global flows, to align that data and use it in the right way.
[00:28:08] Speaker B: Okay, ports. As a neutral referee, I like this idea that we're developing here. Ingrid, obviously you represent one of the ports trying to help shippers with. This hamburger is one of Europe's largest container ports. You're part of the IAP supply chain resilience imports task force. This was launched as part of the chain port initiative. Can you briefly explain, please, what Chainport and this task force is all about? What motivated its members to start the project? And what role do you envisage for port authorities in terms of how they can help bcos improve cargo traceability, as Stefan explains there, that they were quite keen on getting this more transparent information.
[00:28:48] Speaker E: Well, Mike. Yes, actually, let me start explaining a bit about chain port. Chainport is a global network of leading ports. It was initiated by the Hummel Port Authority and the Port of Los Angeles in 2016, and the initiative aims to foster collaboration and innovation among ports worldwide, having a specific focus on digitalization to improve efficiency, sustainability, and resilience in the maritime supply chain. So there's a lot of knowledge change among members.
You were asking for the motivation of chainpot members behind starting the supply chain resilience imports project. This derives from the need to address vulnerabilities exposed by recent global disruptions. Stefan already named some of them the Covid-19 pandemic geopolitical tensions. So these events at the end highlighted the critical role of ports in maintaining supply chain continuity and this necessity for better visibility and predictability in cargo movements. You also ask for the role that chain port members envision supporting bcos well here. Port authorities are seen as pivotal players in this initiative due to their unique neutral position, and this has been said already. So we identified the need for this role to kickstart such a project and we saw ourselves, the port authorities, as the orchestrators to make it happen. So it must be said that this was also reinforced as we were also approached by vcos to help them gain real time insights into their shipments and as a result, improving operational efficiency and reducing the delays that they are experiencing. So chain pool members initiated a series of meetings with beneficial cargo owners, including Ikea with Stefan, to understand their detailed requirements. And it was in January 2023. So in 2023 is when we officially started the project, supply chain resilience in imports. And let me mention also the associations involved in it. I think it will help us to get a better understanding of our scope in this project. So chain pop members, who are also members of the International association of Ports and Harbours, the IPH, joined forces to initiate this project. Then Chainpur and IAP successfully brought together key associations and received their approval to be part of this task force. These are DCSA, digital container shipping association, representing the shipping lines. This is TIC 4.0, the terminal industry committee representing terminal operators and also IPSA, the international port Community systems associations. So these organizations bring together the expertise from various sectors that we need to be successful with this project and with this task force. We aim to harmonize digital infrastructure and promote best practices across the global port network. So together we define two tracks to enhance supply chain visibility and improving port call processes. We have track number one is focused on the cargo perspective. It's about gate in, gate out and aims to create resilient and predictable supply chain for bcos by standardizing data change and improving operational predictability. This is also what Stefan was mentioning before. And the second track focuses on the shipping perspective to make data quality and a successful just in time arrival possible.
[00:32:38] Speaker B: What's the progress on these two tracks? In groups particularly, are you getting good buy in from other stakeholders like container lines or forwarders? Are they fine with the idea of a port being a neutral broker in this?
[00:32:50] Speaker E: Well, what we are experiencing is that they don't yet see us as these neutral orchestrators or not all of them. Let's say that Ikea sees that other vcos as well. Again, we have been approached with them and we have conducted several meetings with them as well. But there's not yet this global recognition about our role. But regarding the current status of both drugs, I can say that both of them have made significant progress. So the first track we have conducted interviews with the bcos to identify key pain points and value cases.
[00:33:27] Speaker B: This is the first track being about cargo, the cargo perspective.
[00:33:30] Speaker E: This is the one focused on the cargo perspective. Gating get out correctly. So we are currently working on formalizing key definitions on 20 timestamps identified as the crucial ones for vcos, and we also aim to create a blueprint for interoperability. So the goal is to link port and inline operations to a globally harmonized language for track and trace, ultimately providing vcos then with improved visibility and control over their cargo movements. We are aware also that we are not starting from scratch and therefore there are more associations collaborating with us beyond those mentioned as part of the core team. The second track, which is focused on the shipping perspective, it has been focused on defining key principles for data quality and collaboration to improve port call processes. So here we have conducted interviews with frontrunners in the industry that have implemented just in time arrival, and based on this we have developed an extensive analysis of it and we are now finalizing the guidelines which will culminate in a practical study with good practices, lessons learned and recommendations for implementation. At the end, we aim to achieve port call optimization through data quality.
[00:34:58] Speaker B: There's an awful lot of organizations that seem to be quite keen to sort of be the householder in terms of housing all of this data themselves. I don't know, is there a battle between these organizations, or is all this about finding more ways to collaborate?
[00:35:11] Speaker E: It's definitely trying to find more ways to collaborate. Again, it was in January 23 when we had this kickoff meeting with DCSA tick 4.0 IPSA, and it was such successful. I mean, we could already so at the earliest stage of the project where we were not able to define already the both drugs and so on, but there was this intention to collaborate intensively on that and try to find a joint solution.
[00:35:38] Speaker B: Okay, great. At the upcoming IAP World Port conference in Hamburg, which will be held from eight to 10 October this year, and I should add will be covered by the lodestar. Gavin van Mol might be going in person, I hear. Obviously this project will be spotlighted. Can you tell us about your expectations not only for this specific session which you'll be leading, Ingrid, but also for the conference as a whole perhaps?
[00:36:03] Speaker E: Sure. So we have high expectations for the upcoming IPH conference, especially since the Humuport authority has the honor of being the host board this year. And this also coincides with our Seals presidency at the IPH. Make it an even more significant event for us. So this well established and significant conference offers a unique platform to showcase our project and engage with a global audience of industry leaders and stakeholders. So specifically, in the session of supply chain resilience in ports, we will officially release the guidelines developed in track two to ensure more port authorities are aware of them and can implement them as well. So this will lead to more ports being able to easily adopt just in time arrival successfully. We'll also share insights on the progress made so far on track number one to provide also better understanding of our efforts and prepare for increased engagement as we approach the pilot phase. And during this phase, we'll need the active participation of bcos, port community system, shipping lines and terminal operators at the end. So overall, the conference will focus on managing risks, building resilience and unlocking opportunities in the maritime supply chain. We are excited to welcome high level speakers, many of whom are already listed on the website on the IPH Wall Ports conference, which Mercato media is organizing. So you can check on that. We expect engaging discussions on crucial topics like the energy transition, cybersecurity and sustainable port operations this year we are also aiming for a more hands on conference experience. That's why the IPH is offering port solutions excursions, a chance to see successful port solutions in action. So meanwhile, the IPH will host dynamic workshops to require active member participation. Again, we look forward to meaningful changes that will drive the industry forward and also we expect to enhance the resilience of global supply chains with it. So it's important to save the date. You have already done that, Mike, but with only a month left, maybe it's better just to already book your flight hotel and get registered.
[00:38:35] Speaker B: I'll just throw in a little tourist tip from the Lodestar here. If anyone gets an extra day, I highly recommend doing a bit of kayaking around the canals of Hamburg. Absolutely. Beautiful. Anyway, Stefan, can you tell me about any successes youve seen, or at least maybe cargo owners have seen thus far from these initiatives, or working more closely with ports?
[00:38:58] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. And going back to the project described by Ingrid, the track one where we had been able to share our key points, our timestamps, which are important for our supply chain, and have that opportunity with all these organizations at the same table to have a discussion at what I mentioned earlier, to pull in information for us internally, Ikea, but also address to these organizations what our pain points are. I think this is mandatory to collaborate on that level and for fruitful discussions and create transparency on that. What are the needs from each party and on the other and connecting with ports, it enables us really to find opportunities going to pilots on sustainability. A big topic is electrifying the delivery to and from the ports with electric vehicles. And there we are about to build a whole new operating model in a new ecosystem. So we invite, or we are invited with all the stakeholders, energy providers, trucking companies, oems I authorities, to discuss who can deliver what for a successful project. Because as you can imagine, if you come with the delivery of your goods in an electric truck, every minute he's standing in the line, you lose the capability of power. So it's that discussions we have and ports and terminals have been quite contributing to successful pilots and projects we are doing with green lines, priority lines for alternative fueled vehicles, which then guarantees us that within a certain time we enter and leave the port, we plan our loading times at the loading stations. That's for sure one of a success story.
[00:40:49] Speaker B: Can I just throw in a final question for you both, Ingrid, if you want to go first on this one, what are the next steps in terms of getting all of this collaboration moving? I know this will be discussed at the IAP World Ports conference, but what do you both hope to achieve, say maybe in the next year or maybe in the next five years?
[00:41:09] Speaker E: Ingrid far away well, Mike, when we started with this project and tried to determine how many years we would be involved, we realized there was no clear end date. So for track one, which focuses on gate in and gate out, the processes, we have omanized, as I said, almost 20 times timestamps. However, there are many more to consider. So we can extend our efforts beyond container terminal boundaries to include timestamps, for example, related to railways or bulk cargo, for example. But realistically, we hope that in the coming years we'll have conducted successful pilot projects under corona scope and seen more port authorities implement just in time arrivals effectively, thanks to our practical guidelines. So we very much hope that these CEO's will benefit from all our work, as this is what brought us to start with it.
[00:42:06] Speaker A: I just can add on what Ingrid said, when we have the opportunity to go into pilots where we have access to this data, then to test our supply chain with it, measure it, what will it bring us in terms of planning capacity, gaining efficiency, results in sustainability. So we are very eager to try that out and contribute to that. But then at the same time, of course, with what we have extended on the broader side, and maybe with more important timestamps, geographical challenges, that's what we are looking for in the upcoming years.
[00:42:42] Speaker B: Stefan Krasiger Business development leader for global ports for supply chain operations at Ikea, and Ingrid Bokeh, global strategic networks officer at Hamburg Port Authority. Thank you both for joining me today on the Lodestar podcast.
[00:42:56] Speaker A: Thank you very much, Mike. Was a pleasure.
[00:42:58] Speaker E: Thank you, Mike. And see you, Stefan and Mike in Hamburg.
[00:43:04] Speaker B: Big thanks to my editing team, Karen Ball and Tom Matthews, and to Zenita for providing the Lodestar podcast with the best data out there, exclusively, no less. A personal one from me, which is a huge shout out to the Steeples family on the marriage of Dean and Lisa. Most belatedly indeed. Congratulations, guys, and most of all, gratitude to you all for listening. We'll be back soon.
